Equity In Every Drop: Series One

Series one includes six episodes focused on the issues and advocacy priorities of our Climate and Safe Energy campaign.

Stay tuned! New monthly episodes will be posted here and anywhere you get your podcasts. Click “Subscribe” in the episode widget above to access links to popular podcast apps.

Thank you for listening, sharing, and supporting our mission to ensure everyone’s right to clean water. Together, we demand equity in every drop.

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Waterkeeper Ep. 6 – Safeguarding Senegal From the Threats of Offshore Drilling

Thomas Hynes: [00:00:00] Welcome back to equity in every drop. Today we are discussing offshore drilling near Senegal in Western Africa.

These projects often promise a tidal wave of economic growth and prosperity, but oftentimes only bring pollution and environmental devastation ashore. Joining us today is Mbake Seck of. Hann Bay keeper in Senegal. Mbacke has been working for many years, protecting Hann Bay and advocating for those who rely on the waterways for employment and recreation.

Mbacke, thank you so much for being here today. It’s great to see you again. 

Mbacké Seck: Thank you, Tom. I am very happy to being today and talking about my country, talking about my village, talking about oil drilling and many things about pollution. I’m sorry for my English, but I am French speaker. 

Thomas Hynes: You’re wonderful.

In any language. You’re wonderful. Tell me about Hann Bay and where you live and where you grew up. And why it’s so special to you. 

Mbacké Seck: Hann Bay is a small village in Atlantic ocean in the South part in [00:01:00] Dakar. If you see the African map, you see the nose of Africa is Senegal. Senegalese is this country and if you see the Senegalese country, 

Dakar is a peninsula. We have the sea on the three side. part of Dakar. Dakar have three million people around the city and our village is been founded before Dakar becomes a Senegalese city state. And he’s a fisherman with a village.

We have a lot of fishermen in the city. And when you have fish around the village, you have a lot of fishery. And we live near the harbor. The Senegalese port authority is near my village. And we have a lot of factory around the village. And when I’m a young boy, when we have fishing party with net, we have a lot of fish.

We spend one week to take out the fish in the net. 

 We have the net is crowded. [00:02:00] Many kinds of fish are in the net. And we spend one week to put out the fish and to give it population. Now in my village for fishing time, we spend eight or six days in the sea and go fishing in the other country, in Guinea or in Guinea Bissau.

People spend a lot of time. And it’s the kind of in an village is a fisherman village. We have around many factories and the people life is fishing and selling fish. 

Thomas Hynes: And tell me about your work as Hann Baykeeper we’ve discussed this before, but tell me for our listeners, how you got involved as the Hann Baykeeper.

Mbacké Seck: Before I become the Hann Baykeeper, I’m a young boy, a student boy in our village in 1988, when my pride and me want to go to the beach, we go 17 kilometers to our village to swimming and have good time with our girlfriend.

This girlfriend [00:03:00] is old lady. Now their old ladies now, and we live near the beach, nicest beach, but it’s very polluted. We have rubbish everywhere. We have plastic everywhere. We have organic things in the beach and he stinks very bad. Nobody comes to swim in the sea. And the student group start to clean the beach and we clean it in the first time in June, 1988 before June, 1988.

We clean everywhere with small tools. When I become member of Waterkeeper Alliance in 2006. I know how to talk with government, how to talk to local government, how to mobilize people. And we become so strong for cleaning Hann bay and we clean Hann bay every three months.

And we have a good result. And the government [00:04:00] follow us. And when we follow us, they going to the European country and French government they found a lot of money, something like 62, 000 million of dollar. for clean Hann bay because when and bay is dirty nobody swim nobody fishing and nobody have fun in the beach Now if you come in Hann bay we have big street and the truck will come to pick the rubbish they come near the beach and everybody put the boxing in the trucks It’s not the same thing in last time, in last five years, in last two years.

Now, if we have a trash bag the truck come to pick it near the water. It’s very good. We have one canal. Canal is a waterway for sewage water and running water. In this sewage way, we have A lot of bad water, a lot of plastic, a lot of menacing. And we put some barrel inside [00:05:00] the waterway, and they keep inside the rubbish.

Mbacké Seck: And now we have a clean beach  Clean that five years ago, better clean, but two years ago, and now if you have some party or some traditional ceremony in my village, people eat near the water. It’s not possible two years ago. They come and they put the food near the water and around the table they eat. It’s not possible two years ago. It’s not possible five years ago. In the Anne Bay, you see the young people swimming in the water. It’s very, very important and I become more strong in my country. Everywhere we have a community who fight against pollution against government, they call me. Because I am so strong and I have many skills from Waterkeeper Alliance to help my country and my [00:06:00] community to make clean the water everywhere in Senegal. It’s very amazing for us. 

Thomas Hynes: Absolutely. And it sounds like it’s amazing for your community and all you’ve done there. And I’ve gotten to know you over the years and I know about these projects and it is really very remarkable.

And I think the last time we spoke, you told me about that investment. It was something like 130 million from the EU for cleanup. It was unbelievable. I want to talk more about offshore drilling, but before we do that, while we’re still talking about your role as a waterkeeper tell me about the importance of growing the waterkeeper movement in Africa and why that’s necessary and what has been done.

Mbacké Seck: When I see that the impact of Waterkeeper Alliance in my community, I need the same impact in African community in other country, because we have good things when we work with the spirit of Waterkeeper, strong community for clean water. if you give more skill to the leader [00:07:00] from African community, you have a big team. Work for clean water. I need to have the same thing in Hann Bay to another African community in Mauritania, in Guinea, in many parts in Africa, it’s very important. African government don’t understand how is the interest to have clean water for drink, for swim, for fishing.

It’s important that the idea come from the bottom, the good ideas come from on the bottom and we push it up for the government, for people who make the decision. 

Thomas Hynes: Absolutely 

Mbacké Seck: the population understand what they want and how to do it, and they have more skill to make that. The government follow up easy and they go to bring money and they bring technology and we work together and we work together for clean water everywhere in Africa because Africa have a young [00:08:00] population.

The population is very young. And when we have early the good skill about cleaning water, I think we make change in Africa. Change for agriculture, change for fishing, change for drinking water. And we put out poverty and miserability. 

Thomas Hynes: I think the last time we spoke, this wasn’t, maybe this was on the horizon and maybe hadn’t really come to fruition yet.

Can we talk a little bit more about the offshore drilling projects? I know there’s, is it Sangomar field and other things? Can we talk about what threat that poses to, Senegal in general, but also to where you are in Hann Bay? 

Mbacké Seck: Senegal, is in the west coast in Africa. Senegal have 718 kilometers on the coast and we have the. Biggest fisherman in Senegal. We have 6, 000, 6, 100 people who [00:09:00] live for fishing. They are fishermen or they work around the fishing activities. When we discover oil and gas in 2010, people are very happy.

And many big oil company come on in Senegal, like Woodside, like BP, like Cosmos. And they explore how when they found oil and gas in Senegal, they have 93 point where they explore the gas and oil. And they found gas in three place. We have Zeta between Senegal in Mauritania and we have Kar Teranga, front of KK is the second city with the biggest community of fishermen in Senegal is a very important city for fishing in Senegal.

The third one is Sangoma. We have the first oil in Sangoma last June, and [00:10:00] SanMar is in the delta of slum. Slum is a rival. We have a lot of mangrove in this place and we have nursery for young fish. And we have many everywhere. We have Marine area protected.

In Sanui, near the JTR, we have Marine Air of Sanui. We have National Park of Langda Barbary. In Kayar, we have Marine Air protected for Kayar. In Sangomar, We have Marine Air Protector of Jawal, we have Marine Protector of Gandun, we have a many good biodiversity. And when we start oil drilling in Senegal, when we start oil exploring in Senegal, every three months, We have big cetaceans like dolphin, like whale Who come in the in the coast. Every three months. The last one is in my city, Hunn. In in last April, we [00:11:00] have one whale who come in the coast and died. And we have fishermen have, when they come back for fishing party, they have no more fish.

Senegalese fish Come from Morocco and Mauritania. 40 percent of all fish we are eating in Senegal will come from foreign countries. 

Senegal give fish for many countries in Africa. Now we bring outside our fish. The fish come from Morocco, come from Mauritania, come from Chile, come from frozen fish, it’s a very bad thing.

Our Senegalese host cost have a lot of fish. We have around Senegalese, what’s open boats, Chinese boat and Korean boats. And now have no more fish in our country. And when we added oil drilling inside the marine area protected, it’s a bag thing. And the government say they [00:12:00] expect money in oil drilling.

Sure, they expect money. They expect 8, 000 billion of local money, local currency. In oil drilling in the same time, the fish give of Senegalese government, the same money. And when we do oil drilling, we lost in our biodiversity, we lost the job and we have a food and security. No more food for people.

Thomas Hynes: Can’t eat the oil. 

Mbacké Seck: Yes. 

Thomas Hynes: Yeah. 

Mbacké Seck: We don’t have a choice. Population don’t have choice. We prefer we choice to have for eat. We have for job and no oil and gas. If we have oil and gas the rich people and the government have more money, but we lost a job. We lost fish. And it’s not a good thing in our planets have more carbon foots.

We [00:13:00] have more carbon foots in Senegal because we are country, not product of petrol and oil. Now we are inside the fossil energy in the world. Our country is not a good example for marine air protected. Not a good example for reduce the carbon foots.

Thomas Hynes: Yeah. And it sounds like it was the same value to have the fishing industry or the oil and gas industry, but the oil and gas industry is completely unsustainable. It’s hurting the other industry. Are there health concerns with the offshore drilling as well? Or is it just the food insecurity is enough of a health concern?

Mbacké Seck: The government speak about the right of developer.The people who support oil drilling say the big country like United States, England, or French, they are developed a country with oil and gas. Why is this country don’t want Senegalese? Develop the country with oil and [00:14:00] gas.

We Senegalese ecologists, we say, we have another alternative. Everybody, know how oil drilling and gas drilling impact climate change. And in Senegal, we have sea level rise. And we have draft and we have flooding and we have hard time very hard time. Like now it’s very hard everywhere in Senegal.

 Why we make climate change so fast. Why we don’t use. Solar energy. Why we don’t use wind And we have 365 days. We have sun. It’s sunny in our country. Every time it’s sunny and we have very hard sun. It’s a big opportunity. Big opportunity.

Mbacké Seck: And guys, we’re going to exploit oil and gas offshore. Just 15 years, 15 years is a life for people like here. This 50 years, it’s, it is a last burial [00:15:00] for us. Last June first burial last burial in 50 years. 

Don’t make sense.

Thomas Hynes: Yeah. No, it doesn’t. And you make a really good points.

Are there any measures being taken to protect the environment from the offshore drilling? Is there any thing that can be done to protect or mitigate the risks to the environment? Is there any protections in place? 

Mbacké Seck: Senegal law protect the cove and the marine environment against oil drilling.

 Just last six months in August 23, we have new law to protect our sea and our coastal against oil drilling and government lie to the population, to the community. If you make oil drilling, you need to make some research. About impact in environment in the social people.

Mbacké Seck: If they do that, they don’t ask the people when they finish this research [00:16:00] they have right to come to talk with people. This is result. They don’t do that. They lie for the population and we work one day, we see in the newspaper, Senegal start oil drilling

and they talk in a small room about consequence of oil drilling in local groups in Senegal, Hann keeper, my group and Barnicos keeper and a fisherman group. We have a campaign, call it save the sea and save the fishery. 

Thomas Hynes: Yeah. 

Mbacké Seck: And we talk about oil drilling and this bad impacts in the environment.

In a coastal environment and a biodiversity in a fishing zone. And when we talk with the fishermen, they hear us very well. And government three weeks ago, government invite me and a lot of, and many activists To have a discussion with government and oil company, the big one like cosmos, like [00:17:00] BP Forteza petrosian with society, civil organization like us.

And he’s the first step of our discussion. And when I ask about insurance, nobody I’m sure when I say We want to know who have what are the insurance company and how is work? And I say we have a tanker who flip , in Malia in Philippine and the government do their best to clean the water 

in senegal when we have the same thing, a tanker flip in the water with a company of insurance.

Nobody answered me. I asked her that three times, nobody answered. And I say, next meeting, I have the same question for us. We need to know what assurance, what they doing and what is a mitigation and how they pay loss and damage for fishermen groups. 

Thomas Hynes: I think, it’s, it sounds like no one else is [00:18:00] asking those questions, but you, and there’s such basic questions, right?

 How are you going to protect the fishermen? What are you going to do if a tank flips over? And I like the way that you said, and you haven’t answered my question, but I’m going to come back and ask it again, because I think that’s really important. Are there, is there anything else that can be done to protect it?

Because it does sound like the drilling is happening and there’s it’s not enough to stop it, but would you like to see done? You’ve mentioned insurance and losses and damages to the fishermen. What would you like to see happen? 

Mbacké Seck: When they have money from oil drilling and gas drilling, We need money to train people around the coast to train the people what is a good reaction when we have accident, how to clean the water, how to make safe these people.

And in Sandvi, we have a company when they have natural gas, they put it in. Liquid to [00:19:00] transport to them. They put the platform in the same class where the fishermen have their activities like santuaries and no more fish in this side. We need money to pay the loss and this damage for this fisherman.

We need to train journalists Because journalists are important in Senegal. We have very big very big press and they are free. We have something like 59 press newspaper and many internet website and something 20, 20 or 25 television. We need to train these people. They know everything about oil drilling and this consequence in this economy.

It’s important for us because now when you show the TV show or you listen to broadcasts, we have some people now talking about oil drilling and this consequence in the [00:20:00] fishermen because we work very hard about this. And we have programs in sa, in North Path, and we have the program in against Yakka, Teranga in the delta of Saloum.

We have a group of women, the woman makes sense. In Africa. We have a group of women, local group of women. They take the program, serve the sea and the fishermen, and they drive it everywhere in the island, in the small island and everywhere in the delta of Saloum. They are very strong and we make change.

People know everything about oil drilling and this impact in the mangrove, the impact in the fishing, the impact in our biodiversity. 

Thomas Hynes: Yeah. And it’s a credit to you because I know that’s what, you’re getting that message out there. And I know from the past, Our past discussions, how adept you are at working the media and you’re, getting yourself on TV and in the newspaper to talk about these things [00:21:00] to get the message out there.

And it’s great to see that happening. So I guess, how can the public support efforts to ensure that these things are done responsibly and what would you like the public to know about this? If, if you could speak to everybody in your community at once.

Mbacké Seck: When we start the national campaign about Save the Sea and the Fish, the people don’t understand what we’re talking about because oil drilling is very new thing in Senegal. Is very new, but the people follow, you know, seven years ago our national campaign against coal. Once the Senegalese government want to build five coal power plant, we have big campaign. I’m going everywhere to talking about coal.

After our Portland conference, I have more skills about coal and I’m talking with Barneve people, Kayar people, Chesapeake City and Borough City. They give him more skill. And we have a one delegation [00:22:00] from New York and waterkeeper. They come to Senegal and we have training session with the leader, the local leader.

And then when they hear us to talk about oil draining, we are credible. They know we have big warrior with clean water, big warrior before protect environment, protect. And they hear us very well. And when we have a conference or training session or major training, they know we’ll give him a good information about oil drilling and they hear us very well. And the government start to hear us. When I invite one government, one ministry to come to talk with people, they accept our invitation, but they don’t give us very good information, but they are here to sit and hear us.

It’s a first step and the fishermen community, they want to [00:23:00] join us to give him more skill because every week we have training session from Chris Welker. And we talk with people who live in Bahama, like waterkeeper spirit. We have something good in one country, in one city. We take it and we work with this.

It’s skill in our country and it’s working Chris and Rashima talk about Bahamas and we read about Gulf and we have good information in Senegalese for Senegalese community about oil drilling and people accept when we are here to talk with us and they make change and they have a good reaction when the Oil drilling company come to talk with him 

they lie when they are here to the people, they say no risk. They had no pollution. They have no oil on the sea [00:24:00] because they have the top technology. They say it and zero risk don’t exist. When they burn the gas, it’s a bad for climate change. It’s bad for the ozone, it’s bad for biodiversity, it’s bad for the good quality of air.

And we talk about this and the young people hear us and the youth, the human organization want to come to train them. And the city, the local government want to come to. To train their community and we have very good job in local community with Barney Coast Keeper and I. and many other ecologist, African Senegalese ecologists. 

Thomas Hynes: and I think that’s a credit to you. A lot of what I’m hearing in there in the beginning there was, and I know about your work. You’ve been doing this for 20 years plus you’ve been cleaning up the beaches. You’ve been telling people about coal.

You’ve been telling people about sewage and plastic pollution. And so that when you start [00:25:00] talking about offshore drilling, you’re already such a respected and trusted source in your country. So that if it’s coming from you, people are very likely to listen to you because you’ve been right. And on the forefront of all these other issues it’s not like you just popped out of nowhere.

And it is, for our listeners, we were talking about what you learned from the Bahamas, from Rashima Ingram at our islands, our futures from a previous episode and the work and that coordination between the two groups that are. Thousands of miles apart but facing the same challenges and threats.

And it’s really just from my vantage point, so great to see to such great organizations, Waterkeepers, Bahamas and Hann Baykeeper working together on this in any capacity is so inspiring. I want to thank you so much for being here, but is there anything else that you want us to talk about or that you want to get across that you would like people to hear about from you or your work or what’s happening in your area?

Mbacké Seck: Thank you, Tom. We are just happy to, [00:26:00] be a member of Water Keeper Alliance. 

Because I have lost 10 years and a lot of skill. It’s not the same Mbacke I don’t talking the same language. And when I’m talking, I have more skill and I have more information. I know how to talk with with lawyer, how to sue the people, how to have press campaign

 and how to make together to work together many different groups. And we need to have big voice. We need to have Like that podcast, we need to have broadcast radio to talking with people because in our community we don’t have many people who Write and read but many people have listened when you have a strong message And we have strong message for Senegalese people about oil drilling, about good protects for good practice for [00:27:00] protect environment, good protects for marine area protected.

And we are very happy to this podcast. And we think we expect to have another one and to speak for oil drilling and our result with this campaign. We start a new campaign in next month, and we want to have more results. Thank you very much. I’m very happy to discuss with you today.

Thomas Hynes: Mbake, I thank you so much for being here. And just, I, you had said a moment ago that you’re happy to be a part of Waterkeeper Alliance. And I think I can speak for the hundreds and thousands of people in the movement that, They’re all very happy.

You’re a part of Waterkeeper Alliance too. And it’s so great to see you again. And on behalf of our listeners, uh, thank you so much for being here today. It was great to see you. And I hope I get to see you, in a few weeks, in Milwaukee. I hope, to see you there. Thank you so much. 

Mbacké Seck: Thank you, Tom. Thank you very much.